Xtremejr
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Posts: 493
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Post by Xtremejr on Aug 4, 2012 16:26:45 GMT -5
I somehow managed to possibly mix up my plug wires, from plug to its location on distributer cap. Car is running really rough now. Does anyone have a diagram or instructions on where they all need to be. or even a clear picture that I can follow the wires from plug to dis cap? I want to blame a buddy for this but only can blame myself, since I never labeled any of them.
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Post by Big Mike on Aug 4, 2012 16:32:57 GMT -5
Everyone is going to have a different idea how to proceed. I would pull the #1 plug - bring the piston to TDC on the compression stroke - then pull the dist cap to see which dist cap electrode the rotor is pointing to and then wire it COUNTER-CLOCKWISE using the firing order.
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Xtremejr
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Hold my beer and watch this shit.
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Post by Xtremejr on Aug 4, 2012 16:44:25 GMT -5
which is the #1 plug. I really f'd this one up didn't I.
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Xtremejr
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Hold my beer and watch this shit.
Posts: 493
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Post by Xtremejr on Aug 4, 2012 17:51:47 GMT -5
This specific picture is just an example, but does anyone have a diagram on the 400 motor sort of like this. I ordered a manual but Ive not received it yet.
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Post by familyrides1965 on Aug 4, 2012 19:09:29 GMT -5
Assuming it is running at least half way decent...I guess you my only have a couple wires crossed. Leave the wires as you have them now, and start tracing back from plug to the cap and mark them. The numbers are on the intake manifold. Mark plug end and distributer end...you should see a pattern forming and aligning with the firing order that is on you intake if it is stock? You will probably find you only mixed up a couple and can make the correction from that point.
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Xtremejr
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Hold my beer and watch this shit.
Posts: 493
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Post by Xtremejr on Aug 4, 2012 20:04:17 GMT -5
Edelbrock intake. So im SOL their
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Post by familyrides1965 on Aug 4, 2012 20:41:58 GMT -5
The diagram you posted is correct...for the 400 so not sure what you are looking for unless you want confirmation...mine reads
pass side reading rear to front 8642 drivers side reading front to rear 1357
Firing order 18436572
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2012 22:20:26 GMT -5
Everyone is going to have a different idea how to proceed. I would pull the #1 plug - bring the piston to TDC on the compression stroke - then pull the dist cap to see which dist cap electrode the rotor is pointing to and then wire it COUNTER-CLOCKWISE using the firing order.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2012 7:22:47 GMT -5
Everyone is going to have a different idea how to proceed. I would pull the #1 plug - bring the piston to TDC on the compression stroke - then pull the dist cap to see which dist cap electrode the rotor is pointing to and then wire it COUNTER-CLOCKWISE using the firing order. THIS IS THE WAY I DO IT ALSO
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2012 8:13:25 GMT -5
If what your looking for is the correct location of#1 on the cap, it`s all relative. Depends on the location of your rotor when dist. was installed. I believe, (i`ll have to check) correct, or original location would be #1 terminal would be first tower to the left of the window in the cap,. But if you go this route you first better check your rotor location @ #1 TDC compression. Uniform location was used to keep, well, simply, to keep things uniform ! And of course the wires for specific engines were custom length. Now, aftermarket crap wires, those are usually so messed up on length you can route them anywhere
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Post by mongoose on Aug 6, 2012 6:47:51 GMT -5
I somehow managed to possibly mix up my plug wires, from plug to its location on distributer cap. Car is running really rough now. Does anyone have a diagram or instructions on where they all need to be. or even a clear picture that I can follow the wires from plug to dis cap? I want to blame a buddy for this but only can blame myself, since I never labeled any of them. To FamilyRides point if it is running at all the wiring is close. So before you go too far with pulling all the wires and trying to redo it, first check what order you have the wire in. Yes, the diagram you posted is correct as far as the positions of the 8 cylinders. So the #1 cylinder is the front drivers-side cylinder. Follow that wire to where it is connected to the distributor cap, and then in a COUNTER-CLOCKWISE direction (lefty-loosy) follow each wire to its respective cylinder, and note where it goes. You will likely find a pair of wires on the distributor cap that don't follow the firing order (remember you're checking the firing order in the opposite direction a clock turns around the distributor cap (not the direction shown in your diagram). If that all checks out, then you may have the wires all shifted one terminal to the left or the right, and that would be a quick experiment to try as well. I suggest these approaches as you said it's at least running (somewhat). If it wouldn't run at all with or without flame popping out of the carburetor, then I'd have to say you need to follow the suggestion of turning the engine over to top dead center (TDC) on the compression stroke, observe where the rotor is pointed, and use that as your reference point for where to place the #1 spark plug wire, and then rewire the rest from there.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 7:22:38 GMT -5
I somehow managed to possibly mix up my plug wires, from plug to its location on distributer cap. Car is running really rough now. Does anyone have a diagram or instructions on where they all need to be. or even a clear picture that I can follow the wires from plug to dis cap? I want to blame a buddy for this but only can blame myself, since I never labeled any of them. To FamilyRides point if it is running at all the wiring is close. So before you go too far with pulling all the wires and trying to redo it, first check what order you have the wire in. Yes, the diagram you posted is correct as far as the positions of the 8 cylinders. So the #1 cylinder is the front drivers-side cylinder. Follow that wire to where it is connected to the distributor cap, and then in a COUNTER-CLOCKWISE direction (lefty-loosy) follow each wire to its respective cylinder, and note where it goes. You will likely find a pair of wires on the distributor cap that don't follow the firing order (remember you're checking the firing order in the opposite direction a clock turns around the distributor cap (not the direction shown in your diagram). If that all checks out, then you may have the wires all shifted one terminal to the left or the right, and that would be a quick experiment to try as well. I suggest these approaches as you said it's at least running (somewhat). If it wouldn't run at all with or without flame popping out of the carburetor, then I'd have to say you need to follow the suggestion of turning the engine over to top dead center (TDC) on the compression stroke, observe where the rotor is pointed, and use that as your reference point for where to place the #1 spark plug wire, and then rewire the rest from there. After going thru all that, I could do the #1 T.D.C. procedure 3 times. And know it`s right. Why take a chance of shooting fire out the carb or out the pipes, pull the wires and wire the bitch already !!!!! As long as you`ve got a plug socket, screwdriver, and a spare finger to put over the hole, DO IT RIGHT. Christ, something as basic as passin gas gets so much ink.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 12:11:52 GMT -5
OH, BUT THIS ROCKET SCIENCE, IT"S SO HARD! BETTER BREAK OPEN ANOTHER BOTTLE OF PILLS , POSTIE AND RELAX. THEY'LL GET IT SOONER OR LATER. IF THEY CAN'T FIGURE OUT THE COMPRESSION STROKE, IT COULD BE 180 DEGREES OFF, IF THEY GOT FIRE OUT THE CARB.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 13:14:47 GMT -5
This may get rather boring to most, so proceed with caution. My morning coffee today was had at a local engine/speed machine shop. Several topics come up, normally all car related. Today was no different, other than the remembering of a close friend to all there, who recently passed. Gary was a cool, very sharp guy. Anyhow, the subject came up in passing, at least I thought it would be just in passing, on the importance of wire positioning in the dist. cap. Well it wasn`t long before the owner was out from behind his desk, pouring coffee(he hates coffee) A little background on him, he was three years ahead of me in school, that`s light years when I was a freshman and he was a senior. His father ran an engine rebuilding shop where he worked everyday after school forever. He still runs his fathers shop, although much expanded, mostly now in to research and development of speed related products. So suffice it to say, he`s been there done that (more than once) I remember before I had my drivers license I was walking home and he gave me a lift. Stopped at the drive in for a burger. All he could talk about was how he was building an engine for a friend,(who I also knew) It was a 64 409, he talked cams, durations, on, and on about shit, I had no clue, I just wanted my free burger (he offered, why not) Well, it seems engineers seldom do things for grins and giggles. And rotor location is no exception. His explanation as to why, is, from my mouth, going to be FAR from technical. For the most part he might just as well been speaking Klingon ! I know just enough about engines to at least be able to nod my head on occasion. The way it goes is, among several other factors (duh) a well balanced engine must rotate smoothly, and centered. And in order to maintain smooth and center, between rotating parts that are often fighting directional rotation, a timing sequence must be followed.(Here`s where tech gets tossed) # 1 ignition, the crank center is getting forced in one direction,(positioning of other cylinders and there functions damper this for the most part) putting stress as to center of the front of the cam (cam lobes and lifter pressure exerted on other lobes mostly compensate for center), Now to the rear of the cam, cam gear on the cam, and gear on the dist shaft are phased thru the positioning of the mechanical advance mechanism, which determines the indexing of the rotor. So, index your rotor in specs with the manual. He then went and pulled an old reference book out, they don`t draw these pictures just to fill the pages!!! Follow the procedure. Now I`m not about to go spinning an engine over, and try and figure out whats pulling or pushing on what, at any given time. To me the explanation of uniformity works. As far as I`m concerned, #1 is in the same location for a given engine so the monkey, or possibly 8 union monkeys on the assembly line, know where to put there wire. Monkey # 1 has the hardest job, he I would assume goes first, the other 7 need only be able to remember opposite a clock, and be able to count funny. But seriously, I can see the theory involved in his explanation, and besides, it`s no harder to index the rotor correctly. Here`s the correct placement, and rotation.
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Xtremejr
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Hold my beer and watch this shit.
Posts: 493
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Post by Xtremejr on Aug 6, 2012 19:27:59 GMT -5
All wires are correct in order. I did not have a chance to turn #1 cyl to tdc and make sure that #1 started out on correct post. Im guessing it is correct, and am possibly leaning towards a bad distributor and or cap. it seems to really wobble around on the distributor even with the hold downs tight. haven't had any flame out carb but did have un-used gas sort of misting out of top of carb, while backfiring. also smells really rich after running about 15 seconds.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 19:40:52 GMT -5
All wires are correct in order. I did not have a chance to turn #1 cyl to tdc and make sure that #1 started out on correct post. Im guessing it is correct, and am possibly leaning towards a bad distributor and or cap. it seems to really wobble around on the distributor even with the hold downs tight. Hold on there before doing anymore testing. Remove the cap and check for damage to your rotor and cap. There isn`t much clearance for any sort of wobble between the cap and rotor. Chances are pretty good there is damage done already. Make certain when putting the cap on that the rotor is completely seated to the shaft seat,(the rotor is also indexed) and the cap is aligned in the locator slot. If your cap was run loose the minimum damage will probably be carbon tracking, at worst, I`ve seen caps disintegrate. Take your time and study out exactly how the rotor should be seated, and cap aligned in the groove. If you need pictures, I`ll get you pictures. This is not to be put together any way but the right way. Hate to keep on adding to this post, but, you said the cap was dancing on the distributor? Check and make certain your distributor is completely seated to the block, and tight. I`ve replaced way to many camshafts in early 350 diesel gas conversion engines where the vacuum pump would get torpedoed out the hole from running loose. Gotta know where the wobble REALLY IS
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 19:43:50 GMT -5
Have you got the rotor on right?
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Xtremejr
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Hold my beer and watch this shit.
Posts: 493
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Post by Xtremejr on Aug 7, 2012 17:30:21 GMT -5
Ok so checked cap and no interior damage that I can see. I wish I can say that for the outer cap, it looks as if someone grinded it down to fit the aftermarket manifold. May need replacing however I'm worried a new one will be too large?? Hold down clamp was a touch loose, will need to reset timing before tightening it back down if It will stay running long enough. when I seat cap into notch and clamp down i can still move cap around(eight inch or so). Also from what I know the rotor is on correct. All else said I'm confident the WOBBLE is cap related..
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Xtremejr
Member
Hold my beer and watch this shit.
Posts: 493
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Post by Xtremejr on Aug 7, 2012 17:48:34 GMT -5
Here is how someone solved a fitting problem.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2012 18:42:45 GMT -5
Nice cap,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I'd say that baby's junk. Take the day off, go to the State Fair to the Leinie Lodge and regroup.
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