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Post by real57vetteguy on Oct 3, 2011 14:56:43 GMT -5
Hi all,
I picked up a 425 "A" block, its just the bare block! From here I am a little torn about which direction to go in. I talked with a few guys that said to build it like a 455, (455 crank, rods & Pistons)
Others say to run 425 internals. I do not have enough Oldsmobile experiance to make my own call on this so I am depending upon others to help me out here.
My goal is a 500hp/600tq motor give or take a little. The car will be a weekend driver, mostly around town and some 1-2 hour trips to events. It will not be a drag car nor will it see 7k rpm's. I plan on keeping the car and want to do it right!
My plans are possibly new rods or recond old original rods, new pistons, aluminum heads, but not sure about Wenzler/Rocket vs Edelbrocks, either of the two I would opt for a stage 1 type port job, obviously I would try to get the heads, intake, cam all from one source so that everything is matched.
With all that said those are just ideas, any help and or advice would br greatly appreciated. I want to spend money where money is needed, and save money where it is possible to save but still build the motor right!
Thanks
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2011 15:47:55 GMT -5
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Post by bubbasz1 on Oct 3, 2011 18:48:51 GMT -5
Looks like too much fun!!!!
Well, it's fun spending all that loot isn't it. ;D ;D
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Post by bil on Oct 3, 2011 19:33:39 GMT -5
Are we even allowed to talk about that particular engine here? Or is it OK now?  ---bil |
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Post by shane on Oct 3, 2011 19:38:56 GMT -5
Are we even allowed to talk about that particular engine here? Or is it OK now? ---bil Only if you share those red pills you have you know the extra-strength ones. |
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Post by BR[] on Oct 3, 2011 20:22:25 GMT -5
Are we even allowed to talk about that particular engine here? Or is it OK now? ---bil Suuuure billy, no problemo Just don't be an asshole and tell me it came stock in your 442.  |
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Post by bubbasz1 on Oct 3, 2011 20:25:27 GMT -5
Are we even allowed to talk about that particular engine here? Or is it OK now? ---bil Suuuure billy, no problemo Just don't be an asshole and tell me it came stock in your 442. It came stock with one and he don't have to prove shit to you!!!!  OK Bil, he's all yours now. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2011 20:55:49 GMT -5
Are we even allowed to talk about that particular engine here? Or is it OK now? ---bil Suuuure billy, no problemo Just don't be an asshole and tell me it came stock in your 442. Did I hear someone was looking for an  ? |
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Post by shane on Oct 3, 2011 21:06:53 GMT -5
Hi all, I picked up a 425 "A" block, its just the bare block! From here I am a little torn about which direction to go in. I talked with a few guys that said to build it like a 455, (455 crank, rods & Pistons) Others say to run 425 internals. I do not have enough Oldsmobile experiance to make my own call on this so I am depending upon others to help me out here. My goal is a 500hp/600tq motor give or take a little. The car will be a weekend driver, mostly around town and some 1-2 hour trips to events. It will not be a drag car nor will it see 7k rpm's. I plan on keeping the car and want to do it right! My plans are possibly new rods or recond old original rods, new pistons, aluminum heads, but not sure about Wenzler/Rocket vs Edelbrocks, either of the two I would opt for a stage 1 type port job, obviously I would try to get the heads, intake, cam all from one source so that everything is matched. With all that said those are just ideas, any help and or advice would br greatly appreciated. I want to spend money where money is needed, and save money where it is possible to save but still build the motor right! Thanks You might want to talk to these guys www.rocketracingperformance.com/ another place is M&J performance . I'm gonna use them when I'm ready to do my engine build. therobski. rocket racing is now offering over sized factory style manifolds rocketracingperformance.com/catalog/ |
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Post by real57vetteguy on Oct 4, 2011 9:43:53 GMT -5
ALRIGHTY THEN hahahaha
I didnt know I was opening a can of worms!
I did a little research, but again I am new to Olds builds. I was wondering about a combo I had run across a few times:
425 A block (yes the 45 degree)
455 N crank
425 rods
455 Pontiac pistons
has anyone done this?
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Post by shane on Oct 4, 2011 10:12:42 GMT -5
I've never heard of that combo but I have read alot of guys are taking 400 and 425 s and putting complete 455 innards in them, crank, rods and pistons
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Post by oldsproject on Oct 4, 2011 10:25:27 GMT -5
Not sure where youre headed but thats a fairly big bore for a 425. Many go even bigger, think BRO did on one of his race cars if memory serves. Likely need to sonic check the block but maybe not. Keep in mind that the bigger the bore the less wall thickness which creates heat issues and Olds by nature already run a bit hot on average. Also, the 425 crank is stronger then the 455 so not sure what your thoughts are there? For what its worth heres what I did and love the combo so far:
67 425 block .30 over
Mel high volumn oil pump
425 Crank balanced with mondello oil restrictors
Mildon low profile 7 quart pan
Reinforcement straps and studs on the main caps
Clevite 77 main bearings
Original rods shot peened and reconditioned
Full floating pins
Egge repop pistons
Speed Pro file fit rings, gapped according to mondello specs
C Heads with beehive springs - no porting work done
Modello JM 20-22 45 degree Cam
Cloyes double roller timing set up
Mondello split timing chain cover
Mondello aluminum water pump
Power force balancer
Rock auto 4 core rad
Comp cams hydraulic lifters and roller rockers
Mondello valley tray
Edelbrock performer intake
Edlebrock 750 carb
MSD HEI
Hooker super comp headers
Flow master exhaust
Th350
3:08 rear
Will likely change the TH350 out for a built up 700R4 and rear to a 3:23- 3:55 posi but still thinking. Im not saying this is perfect as it depends on what you want. I simply want a
strong cruiser that I could improve over time if needed. I personally like the combo but sure others have better thoughts.going to a different tranny to get a lower ratio multiplier for stronger low end but have the advantage of over drive for the highway. Everyone is different so do what you want.
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Post by chadman on Oct 4, 2011 10:38:27 GMT -5
I would put 455 internals in the 425 block if I were you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 425. That being said a 455 is less expensive to build, has a much better selection of parts to choose from and will make more power. The only benefit to building a 425 is the increased strength of the forged crank which is totally unecessary for anything under 600hp. Here is a link to my engine build for reference. This is all in a 65 400 "B" block that was sonic checked and bored .155 over. www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=77901 |
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Post by Big Mike on Oct 4, 2011 11:14:54 GMT -5
I did a little research, but again I am new to Olds builds. I was wondering about a combo I had run across a few times:
425 A block (yes the 45 degree)
455 N crank
425 rods
455 Pontiac pistons
has anyone done this? I asked our resident Olds guru here for our club and this is what he gave me: I've heard of this before. You need to be careful with the Pontiac pistons as I've seen different published numbers for compression height. If you use the Speed Pro forged Pontiac 455 pistons with the 1.497" compression height and the 7.00" 425 rods, you end up with 0.022" taller piston deck height relative to the stock 455 pistons and rods. This may work, it depends on exactly how much the block has been cut previously. At worst you may need to skim cut the piston decks to get the right height. Using the stock 455 stroke of 4.250", you get a 473 cu in motor. Of course you're looking at custom balancing, but that's no big deal.Hope that helps, |
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Post by real57vetteguy on Oct 4, 2011 12:29:47 GMT -5
I did a little research, but again I am new to Olds builds. I was wondering about a combo I had run across a few times:
425 A block (yes the 45 degree)
455 N crank
425 rods
455 Pontiac pistons
has anyone done this? I asked our resident Olds guru here for our club and this is what he gave me: I've heard of this before. You need to be careful with the Pontiac pistons as I've seen different published numbers for compression height. If you use the Speed Pro forged Pontiac 455 pistons with the 1.497" compression height and the 7.00" 425 rods, you end up with 0.022" taller piston deck height relative to the stock 455 pistons and rods. This may work, it depends on exactly how much the block has been cut previously. At worst you may need to skim cut the piston decks to get the right height. Using the stock 455 stroke of 4.250", you get a 473 cu in motor. Of course you're looking at custom balancing, but that's no big deal.Hope that helps, That does, any input helps. The 425 block is completly stock and has not been cut. I just wonder if that is a good combo to run with. It seems like a 473 cu inch motor using a crank and rods I can pick up for next to nothing would be the way to go vs buying a 2500-3000 dollar assembly??? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2011 15:11:02 GMT -5
Chadman has alot of knowledge with these builds especially on the race side. You can put the 455 inards in the 425. You use the 455 crank, rods you cannot use 425 pistons on the 455 rods because of the difference in wrist pin height. 455 you can go can build a hydraulic roller cam. You can't on the 45 degree 425. CutlassEFI can explain that one. I'm building the 425 with 425 parts. Built right the early 400's and 425's will rev 6000-6500 RPM's. Nice.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2011 15:21:49 GMT -5
Shane thanks for the tip, those W-Z's with 2.5 inch outlets look nice. I measured mine 2.25 inches.That's alot more breathing room in my book especially on the exhaust side.
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Post by bil on Oct 4, 2011 18:32:37 GMT -5
Boy,lots of good info in a short time! Nice! Actually,my first 65 DID come with a 425 in it! (The 400 had a big hole in the side,easy access to internal parts) Shane-I can send you some of my meds,I keep a big jar in the truck just in case...from what I read in the papers,last time I ran out didn't end so good!  I always liked the 425,I think even over the 455 I had in that car.It just seemed to have more balls.Glad to see a buildup on one here. ---bil |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2011 18:48:30 GMT -5
bil that's what I hear from some guys that currently have both 425 and 455 A-Body cars. Now it's my turn. Back in the day when I was 17 had a part time job after school, my boss had a 65 maroon Starfire and if you can actually believe this: he let me take it out on Friday and Saturday nights if I would wash and wax it over the weekend, when he was busting his butt 80 hours a week at the restaurant. I clearly remember that brick with a 3:91 gear set, I could run with or beat the GM Big Block A-body's, big block Fords and Dodges. And that's a big car! SO?
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Post by real57vetteguy on Oct 4, 2011 19:09:39 GMT -5
Are you sure that you cant get a hyd roller for a 425 45 degree block? I was talkint to Bill at BTR yesterday, (in which we were talking about cam bank angle) he clearly knew I had a 45 degree block and he was advising me to make sure I went with the hyd roller set up?
Unless I am missing something the 455 pontiac piston isnt that extreme, a 30 over piston is 4.18, in theory I assume the longer rod length of the 425 with the 455 crank should make the CI around 466-473. Topped off with a set of CNC'd Edel's should make a nice powerplant or my frankenstein might just blow the heck up who knows, I am still doing my primitive math
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---bil
![BR[] Avatar](http://aliquippaoutlaws.homestead.com/Bro442_ANIM_150.gif)
