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Post by wailinwayne on Dec 8, 2018 22:32:48 GMT -5
Since this is a rather slow time for this forum I thought I'd make reference to a video put out by ATRA which stands for Automatic Transmission Rebuilders Association. The two commentators are rather biased towards the " goat " but to each his own.To watch just google the following : Clash of the Classics - 1965 Oldsmobile 442 vs. 1965 Pontiac GTO. Just click on the frontal view of the gold '65 GTO and you're away! If one of our moderators can make this video easier to access by all means do so. www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH0fA00s2Mk
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Post by island65cruiser on Dec 9, 2018 12:03:04 GMT -5
Lost interest in the video the minute the host showed his ignorance on the origins of the "442" name. Obviously didn't have real knowledge or know how to do real research. Did anyone doubt the GTO was going to be their winner from the onset? On the street, the base GTO never measured up to the base 442. We took a lot of their money in the old days! .It is a shame they bring more money today though at auction
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Post by john442 on Dec 10, 2018 14:57:16 GMT -5
I noticed the commentator gave 0-60 and quarter mile times and speed and the 442 beat the GTO in both. My personal experience in racing a 65 GTO in 1969 with my 65 Olds Cutlass Holiday w/67 400 and 4 speed was a draw. We raced on I-90 in Gulfport MS from a rolling start and neither of us could beat the other. The GTO is a good looking car but I think the 442 is much better looking.
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Post by island65cruiser on Dec 10, 2018 19:44:05 GMT -5
John, My recollection from 65, 66 when my first 442 was new was that a four barrel goat was not as fast, but a Tri-power with big gears, 3:90, or 4:10 would beat me. There was a guy from Jersey City that used to come over the bridge with his Tri-power goat that we just couldn't beat. My Holiday coupe with an M-21, and 3:55's on Pirelli Radials, at about 3500 RPM was a hole shot monster. I think it was the big sway bars that made the difference. My buddy's stock goat just couldn't launch like that, ever. Lots of wheel spin. It was easy to get races too, because the GTO guys were always cocky. and didn't know the 442 was a torque monster. But, the best thing about the 442 was that there wasn't a patrol car in the city of New York that had the horsepower to catch us when we ran from them. In those days, the law said they had to catch you at the time of the offense, to identify the driver. They couldn't mail you a ticket. We used to say they only had "quarter mile jurisdiction"! Today, you'd be in prison for what we got away with.
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Post by john442 on Dec 11, 2018 13:28:53 GMT -5
"I was never a great drag racer for one reason I was trying to go easier on the car by not racing from a dead stop and not power shifting. I couldn't afford breaking parts or replacing tires."
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Post by john442 on Dec 11, 2018 18:09:33 GMT -5
BR you recopied my post and then edited out the part of racing my car in 1969 when I could not afford to break parts. Now I can so you can take your "P" back. BTW, did I do something to offend you or am I misreading your responses? John
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Post by BR[] on Dec 11, 2018 20:41:54 GMT -5
no offence intended. Just being my asshole self and blew it. never meant to edit your post. just copy the first part of it and paste it into a new one. I never realized what happened until i saw your last post just now. sorry John
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Post by island65cruiser on Dec 12, 2018 11:17:28 GMT -5
John, we were really lucky. The Olds dealer in Staten Island, where I grew up, really wanted the 442's to be raced to pump sales. I remember that if we broke something drag racing`, we brought them the part and they replaced it for free. I used to go through the Z bars on the clutch linkage at the rate of one every two or three months. I asked how they covered it, and the manager just said "a lot of parts on new cars were,"defective on delivery"! The only thing they didn't cover was when I twisted the splines off the tailshaft on the M-21. That's how much bite that car had. The car was two years old, that was on me. I guess that's why the later tranny's went to more splines on the shaft.
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Post by john442 on Dec 12, 2018 12:13:08 GMT -5
BR No offense taken. I was just concerned I may have said something to offend you. You have given me and many other some great info and expert help and I'm sure they appreciate it as much as I do. I sometimes misread innocent banter as the funny digs it is intended to be.
John
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Post by wailinwayne on Dec 13, 2018 21:28:34 GMT -5
My buddy and I like to show our cars at shows together as much as possible. With his 3 deuces under the hood in the GTO and mine with the dual quads it makes for a lot of interesting conversations.
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Post by wailinwayne on Dec 13, 2018 21:36:11 GMT -5
Better to look at the hardware rather than rear ends!
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Post by jcf85post on Dec 13, 2018 22:19:17 GMT -5
so,who's is faster?
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Post by wailinwayne on Dec 13, 2018 23:50:15 GMT -5
That's a good question. My buddy would be the first to admit that power shifting his 4 speed is not his forte, especially in a 54 year old car. Also, he's been having a lot of difficulties with his tri-power set up with trying to keep it running due to flooding in the center carb. But having said that, we believe the Olds is putting out more horsepower with headers, a hotter cam built by Mondello and 3" exhaust. The engine is not the original 400 but is a 1967 Toronado engine that was rated at 385 hp. As far as the GTO is concerned factory rating is 360hp but we know that true output was likely closer to 400. Both cars have 3:55 rear end gears so no advantage there. Who knows, someday when he gets it running to his satisfaction we may have it out and it could be a very good race.
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Post by BR[] on Dec 14, 2018 6:55:27 GMT -5
How much trouble could he be having with that center carb? It's only a 2 barrel. Tell him to take 10 minutes, pull it off and have it rebuilt. There's not much to them. Be sure to upgrade to the new accelerator pump piston that is ethanol friendly and a new ball valve and float.
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Post by wailinwayne on Dec 14, 2018 14:48:26 GMT -5
The middle carb problem turned out to be a pin hole in the float causing it to flood. Starting the motor was a major problem and keeping it running until warmed up was a challenge. A new carb kit was purchased and the flooding problem was solved but since then the carb has chewed up 3 accelerator pump pistons and we are not sure why. Perhaps there are different accelerator pistons available compared to the kit pumps. The car has been put away for the winter.
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Post by BR[] on Dec 14, 2018 18:07:02 GMT -5
The accelerator pump well is probably rough from the ethanol and should be honed or polished. Always run a stabilizer in the fuel. I've had good luck with Lucas
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Post by wailinwayne on Dec 14, 2018 23:20:13 GMT -5
Thanks for your input, Bro, I'll share this with the owner.
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Post by sascha on Dec 15, 2018 1:46:42 GMT -5
can you give the exact details of the fuel stabilizer you used?
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Post by BR[] on Dec 15, 2018 8:32:18 GMT -5
'
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Post by sascha on Dec 16, 2018 12:09:18 GMT -5
Thanks BRO, since my cars are my daily drivers, this is getting important to me. I can smell that it separates certain materials in the carbs, since they where not made to handle them.
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