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Post by roofgunner on Nov 24, 2016 20:01:20 GMT -5
I needed a new two speed wiper switch for my 65 Cutlass. I found what they claimed to be a NOS switch for my car so I had them send it. It is identical in size, shape and it fits like the original one. The box had written on it 64 chevy truck. The difference is the three connecting paddles are in a different configuration. Am I going to be able , through hit and miss, to connect my three wires (one blue and two black)to this switch and have my wipers/washer work properly?
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Post by joepadavano on Nov 25, 2016 10:27:42 GMT -5
I needed a new two speed wiper switch for my 65 Cutlass. I found what they claimed to be a NOS switch for my car so I had them send it. It is identical in size, shape and it fits like the original one. The box had written on it 64 chevy truck. The difference is the three connecting paddles are in a different configuration. Am I going to be able , through hit and miss, to connect my three wires (one blue and two black)to this switch and have my wipers/washer work properly? You could just use an ohmmeter to see which terminals are connected to each other with the switch in each position. Compare this to how the original works and you'll have your answer.
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Post by roofgunner on Nov 25, 2016 12:19:11 GMT -5
To a certain extent I might be over my head in this, however I usually figure things out. First of all, the engine is not in the car and I am powering the system for test with a 10 amp battery charger and according to my volt meter it is putting in around 9.5 volts. So when I hooked up the switch or touched the wires the wiper motor works but the arms don't go all the way across and just go up and down a little. (I made extended wires via spade connectors so I didn't have to be under the dash.)The Olds manual speaks of a ground strap for the washer motor and I don't see one. I do have the cowl ground strap connect with the main ground for the battery. As far as the two switches are concerned I cannot say the original is in 100% order. I did try different connections with the NOS chevy switch and with the switch OFF all I could get was for the wiper to move (although it won't fully cycle) when I turned the ignition switch on but with any connection the switch didn't have any effect. So I'm thinking that maybe I should wait until I get full voltage. I have no experience with windshield washers.
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Post by roofgunner on Nov 25, 2016 13:22:36 GMT -5
I am going to try putting a full 12 volts into the system. I called CollectorsAutoSupply.com, where I got the switch #1993665 and the fellow checked the number and he said it will fit a 65 Olds Cutlass w/2 speed wiper. I will make sure the wiper motor is grounded.
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Post by roofgunner on Nov 25, 2016 15:50:53 GMT -5
Nothing worked. I called an 65 OCA advisor and he said it is probably the motor. So I pulled it out. It is the original with little doubt. "DELCO APPLIANCE, Rochester, NY. Made in USA. 4914569" #7 on the motor. It will be replaced and the original kept. Now I can do more cleaning and lubricating, etc.
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Post by BR[] on Nov 25, 2016 21:08:05 GMT -5
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Post by joepadavano on Nov 26, 2016 9:15:54 GMT -5
To a certain extent I might be over my head in this, however I usually figure things out. First of all, the engine is not in the car and I am powering the system for test with a 10 amp battery charger and according to my volt meter it is putting in around 9.5 volts. So when I hooked up the switch or touched the wires the wiper motor works but the arms don't go all the way across and just go up and down a little. (I made extended wires via spade connectors so I didn't have to be under the dash.)The Olds manual speaks of a ground strap for the washer motor and I don't see one. I do have the cowl ground strap connect with the main ground for the battery. As far as the two switches are concerned I cannot say the original is in 100% order. I did try different connections with the NOS chevy switch and with the switch OFF all I could get was for the wiper to move (although it won't fully cycle) when I turned the ignition switch on but with any connection the switch didn't have any effect. So I'm thinking that maybe I should wait until I get full voltage. I have no experience with windshield washers. You completely missed my point. Take the old switch and the new switch (not connected to anything) and map the internal connections. There are three terminals on each - label them A, B, and C. With the switch in the OFF position, what is the connection (if any) between A-B, B-C, and C-A? Now put the switch in position 1, do the same thing. Position 2, repeat. Write this down in a table. Do the same with the other switch and compare results. This will tell you 1) if the two switches function the same, and if they do, 2) maps the terminals so you know which wire from the old switch connects to which terminal on the new one. Simply plugging stuff in and trying things is a good way to waste time chasing your tail.
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Post by roofgunner on Nov 26, 2016 10:07:31 GMT -5
Part of the problem is that the old switch had broken and not together ie. the plastic part that contains the three connectors was not in good shape so I didn't know whether to trust readings but I did try.( The guy that had the car before me had done something with the wiring and the connector for the old switch was not stock.)It appeared that that both switches do the same thing and it was hard to hold the pieces of the original switch together while performing the tests. The washer motor behaved the same way no matter how the three wires were connected or what the voltage was. So I called one of the OCA 65 advisors. He told me, and I agree that since the motor has been tested with two switches and directly without a switch then replace or rebuild the unit. What the motor does is it runs a little one way then the other just enough to move the wipers a few inches. So the relay or switching mechanism must have failed. So I removed the motor. This two speed motor has the ground strap on it which you can't see unless you remove the motor. (I think he told the one speed had a separate one.) So I am going to have the unit rebuilt because I want it original. Upon removal of the motor I can tell it is the original. Now I can have a chance of cleaning, etc. the area underneath the cowl cover and around where the motor is mounted. Then I'm going to use the ohm meter and trace exactly where the three wires that connect to the switch on the dash end up at the motor unit. Thank you for the PDF you sent and thank you for your help!! I have saved it and will read it. I have found that working on vehicles(and I learned this many years ago)is like taking a trip: sometimes there are detours, rough roads, traffic, etc. but they all lead to smooth roads and you learn along the trip!
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Post by roofgunner on Dec 26, 2016 10:46:09 GMT -5
Wiper update. Everything works. Jason La Rock in Kasson, MN restored the wiper motor and other parts as needed. It looks like new. I installed the assembly making sure all grounds were good and the other connections cleaned and di-electric grease applied to same. The wiper switch that came in the NOS box (which had the number 1993665) also had "64 Chevy" written on it. It is the same length and fits, however the paddle connection is different than the original and the one shown in the assembly manual. Somewhere, possibly, someone or a parts guy, knew that he had a switch that would work in the Cutlass except for the paddle connections. I can see this happening esp in an Olds/Chevy dealership. Of course I will never know. After verifying(with an Ohm meter) which combo worked and connected with what, I put covered paddle (female) connections on the two black and one blue wire. I put the blue wire on the center connected paddle for the washer. Then hooked up the two blacks, grounded the switch to the dash and turned on the ignition switch. Nothing happened. Then I turned on the wiper switch and it operated properly and so it the washer pump. So it's good. Then I had to find out what would happen if I reversed the two black wires. When you do that, no matter what you do with the wiper switch the wiper won't shut off. So the bottom line is a 50/50 chance that you will get it right. Just remember to hook up the washer contact in the CENTER paddle that would coincide with the washer button contact.
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Post by mongoose on Mar 25, 2022 10:32:53 GMT -5
Found this post as a good place to ask my question. Looking at the reference Bro has on his website, it looks like there should be little to no resistance between the 12th Volt input tab and either of the 2 output tabs. The low and high speeds must be regulated within the wiper motor, based on which wire is carrying the 12 volts.
Am I accurate in my gguesstimate?
I had my wipers stop for a couple seconds, and I want to test and possibly inspect the switch before I begin thinking it is the wiper motor itself.
Btw the wipers move pretty slow.
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Post by joepadavano on Mar 25, 2022 19:22:07 GMT -5
Found this post as a good place to ask my question. Looking at the reference Bro has on his website, it looks like there should be little to no resistance between the 12th Volt input tab and either of the 2 output tabs. The low and high speeds must be regulated within the wiper motor, based on which wire is carrying the 12 volts. Am I accurate in my gguesstimate?
The GM two speed wiper is wired up in a non-intuitive way. First, the wiper gets power to the motor all the time. The switch only makes or breaks the connection to ground. In the motor there is a high speed winding and a reverse-wound shunt winding.
When the switch is in the HI position, only the high speed wire is connected to ground, which energizes the high speed winding. This runs the motor in high speed.
When the switch is in the LO position, both the high speed and the low speed wires are connected to ground. This engergizes both the high speed winding and the shunt winding. Since the shunt winding is wound backwards from the high speed winding, it negates some of the magnetic force, which slows the motor down.
When the switch is in the OFF position, only the low speed wire is connected to ground. This energizes only the shunt winding, which runs the motor backwards to park the blades. A cam inside the motor gearbox opens a set of contacts that turns the motor off once the park position is reached.
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Post by mongoose on Mar 26, 2022 6:10:59 GMT -5
Wow... that is fantastic information Joe.
I can test the switch for proper ground in both positions at the harness to the motor, and then at the switch if nessessary. And test the wiper motor with ground jumper wires for motor function and performance.
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Post by joepadavano on Mar 26, 2022 9:17:02 GMT -5
Wow... that is fantastic information Joe. I can test the switch for proper ground in both positions at the harness to the motor, and then at the switch if nessessary. And test the wiper motor with ground jumper wires for motor function and performance.
Correct. Jumpering the motor terminals to ground is exactly how the CSM tells you to test it.
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