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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2010 10:48:38 GMT -5
This is a slippery slope question.
I'm restoring a couple of 442 cars. My thoughts are to make those improvements for comfort and safety such as:
1. Disc brakes with dual circuit master cylinder.
2. Power steering (one car was manual steering)
3. Factory Airconditioning system (was heat only)
4. R134A refrigerant and delete POA valve.
5. Electric condenser fan
6. Four way flasher system (was dealer installed option I think)
7. Need passenger side mirror to match original (new product opportunity)
8. Replace electrical wiring with new fuse panel and wiring.
9. Single wire 55 Amp Alternator
10. Electronic ignition (choice of points replacement or HEI)
11. Upgraded headlights vs T3
12. The music system will be located in the glove box.
13. Add oxygen sensors and readout for tuning the Carburetor jets.
14. Upgrade the 4 speed shifter as shown on Bro's site to competiton plus with original 442 handle.
15. The convertible will go to electric windows.
16. I'd really like to have overdrive with the 4 speed. The replacement 5 and 6 speed transmissions just require so much visible cockpit work. I want to keep the factory manual console.
17. I did add the return vent line to the fuel system.
18. I am considering the add of water drain lines from the rear window pinch weld area. (All current design cars use drain lines for trapped water)
Your thoughts?
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Post by 442scotty on Jan 8, 2010 11:15:43 GMT -5
Well, I have two 65's...one being a 442 clone. For myself...I have done most of the mods you speak of to my clone because its just a clone and my driver....
My 442 has had a couple of slight mods done to it by a previous owner and I am changing it back to stock. Probably because, number one, it is a 442...and also because it is a highly optioned low mile car with a great body...Not many of these around and I feel it should be as it was...
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Post by bubbasz1 on Jan 8, 2010 11:16:15 GMT -5
I would do all but I am not worried about having a judgable car. Some people want to have a car that is able to go to Olds affiliated car shows and be able to have the people who don't know crap about our cars say they don't conform. Not for me, if you are like me, make it the way you see fit. (My convertible)
My post, I would not go out of my way to change as it is in very good previously restored condition. If it needed work and the original way by far sub quality compared to current day, yes I would change it.
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Post by 442scotty on Jan 8, 2010 11:19:46 GMT -5
I think if yours has had panels replaced due to rust etc then I would say why not make it more modern..It has already been altered.. I like driving the 442 because it has a special feel to it but the clone rides and runs much better because of all the upgrades
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Post by Big Mike on Jan 8, 2010 11:37:41 GMT -5
Alan:
All of those mods are perfectly fine as long as you don't care about the particular car being "bone stock" - as is/was made in 65. There are quite a few bone stock folks like that out there that restore cars and enjoy the hobby, and that’s fine and what gets them up, but all of your mods could be done in a way that would really not effect competing in some judged shows [just not the OCA Nationals] or the value of the car with the exception of the electric fan. As a matter of fact, it might help the resale value.
Adding or swapping a manual steering to power, adding factory A/C, adding a 4-way [yes, it was a dealer installed option and the kits come up for sale with some frequency], power windows, as long as you use factory switches, won’t hurt anything. And adding upgrades like the fusebox, alt., oxy sensors, headlights, all good things.
Go for it!
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Post by RAM Z on Jan 8, 2010 13:05:48 GMT -5
Why couldnt he compete at an OCA national? There are other classes besides stock.
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Post by RAM Z on Jan 8, 2010 13:08:55 GMT -5
Not for me, if you are like me, make it the way you see fit. (My convertible) I dont think he wants his car in a million pieces only to chain the biggest part to his patio.  Build whatever you want, there are no rules saying what you can and cant do. Its yours so built it the way YOU want. |
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Post by Big Mike on Jan 8, 2010 14:21:45 GMT -5
Why couldnt he compete at an OCA national? There are other classes besides stock. Yes, you are correct, but some of the classes that the car would go into because of the changes would make it easier to be outclassed by other cars. But that's just my opinion. You are correct, the changes would not disqualify him from entering or showing the car at nationals. |
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Post by bubbasz1 on Jan 8, 2010 16:35:00 GMT -5
Why couldnt he compete at an OCA national? There are other classes besides stock. I wouldn't know that, cause that is beyond my thought process on what I care about. Sorry if I misled anyone but honestly I don't care. As stated more or less, your car only has to look good to you and your expectations. BTW my car isn't chained down to the patio, I know this because the last wind storm blew it onto the grass again, and that's also fine with me, wouldn't want it getting tired of its spot on the cement now would we. |
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Post by oldsproject on Jan 8, 2010 17:32:46 GMT -5
Why couldnt he compete at an OCA national? There are other classes besides stock. I wouldn't know that, cause that is beyond my thought process on what I care about. Sorry if I misled anyone but honestly I don't care. As stated more or less, your car only has to look good to you and your expectations. BTW my car isn't chained down to the patio, I know this because the last wind storm blew it onto the grass again, and that's also fine with me, wouldn't want it getting tired of its spot on the cement now would we. Your humor kills me  |
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Post by oldsproject on Jan 8, 2010 17:50:55 GMT -5
This is a slippery slope question. I'm restoring a couple of 442 cars. My thoughts are to make those improvements for comfort and safety such as: 1. Disc brakes with dual circuit master cylinder. 2. Power steering (one car was manual steering) 3. Factory Airconditioning system (was heat only) 4. R134A refrigerant and delete POA valve. 5. Electric condenser fan 6. Four way flasher system (was dealer installed option I think) 7. Need passenger side mirror to match original (new product opportunity) 8. Replace electrical wiring with new fuse panel and wiring. 9. Single wire 55 Amp Alternator 10. Electronic ignition (choice of points replacement or HEI) 11. Upgraded headlights vs T3 12. The music system will be located in the glove box. 13. Add oxygen sensors and readout for tuning the Carburetor jets. 14. Upgrade the 4 speed shifter as shown on Bro's site to competiton plus with original 442 handle. 15. The convertible will go to electric windows. 16. I'd really like to have overdrive with the 4 speed. The replacement 5 and 6 speed transmissions just require so much visible cockpit work. I want to keep the factory manual console. 17. I did add the return vent line to the fuel system. 18. I am considering the add of water drain lines from the rear window pinch weld area. (All current design cars use drain lines for trapped water) Your thoughts? Alan, glad you asked the question because I go back and forth all the time. I'm sorta headed down the path Scotty did which is to have my 442 as original as reasonble and the Cutlass a 442 clone that will be the driver. But who knows..... |
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Post by bubbasz1 on Jan 8, 2010 19:59:19 GMT -5
I look at it this way, I love the old car feel, and I also love the new car performance(not just in HP but also everything else that has evolved in the last 45 years). So I ask myself would I make the convertible stock if I hadn't purchased my basically stock post??? Can't answer that, I think I would change certain things but maybe as dramatic as I plan to change. Who knows. And as far as our humor you should ask Ramz if that red car runs as good as it looks. 
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Post by RAM Z on Jan 8, 2010 21:56:29 GMT -5
I better shut my mouth, come spring I am going to need your assistance when that slug comes out.
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Post by bubbasz1 on Jan 8, 2010 22:47:15 GMT -5
I better shut my mouth, come spring I am going to need your assistance when that slug comes out. I might be able to fit you into my tight schedule. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2010 13:31:41 GMT -5
Although I'm currently restoring a 66, I still prefer the factory look, but, I do like adding some options that my car didn't originally have. However, they have to be from another donor car, such as, power trunk release, courtesy lights(under dash), electronic ignition for better performance, so on and so forth.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2010 20:09:47 GMT -5
Hey 66kidscar442- Have you seen the '66 tri-power that is for sale on ebay now? Do you or does anyone know if that car is legit? The car is VERY nice but the window sticker looks like its not original and no mention is made of any real paperwork or matching #'s. The term "correct" is used, but looks and sounds a little misleading. Maybe those are "added" options. STILL AN AWESOME CAR!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2010 18:06:11 GMT -5
Hi dw31s, I assume it's the real thing if your talking about the bronze colored one on ebay. He has a guy by the name of Don Breen that will answer any questions about the car. Your right though, it is a very sweet 66, and, I'd like to own it. I love 66's anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2010 14:25:32 GMT -5
One of the interesting directions this post has developed is the notion of original sheet metal. Any of these cars driven in 80 percent of the US had major rust issues by 3 years. I had to pull the glass from my 64 Cutlass at least twice over the 7-8 years to repair the leaking rear glass.
I have one 442 coupe that the quarters need to be replaced and the quarters were already replaced. Wisconsin car.
My personal view is the sheet metal repair does not diminish the orginal quality of the car. The real question was to be as un-obtrusive as possible and correct real trade-offs (defects) in the car as produced in 1965.
I drove these cars in the 1960s, had two 64s, for well over 100k miles. An was scared to death many times when the drum brakes got wet and the car would dart right or left on hard brake application. And what about the steering column spear. I'd like to refit the column shaft with shear pins (collapsible) used in current technology.
These cars run hot with the addition of airconditioning. The electric fan was a huge improvement for engine hot restart as well as not having to turn off the A/C in hot stop and go traffic. By 66 the cooling system was converted to cross flow with the frame rails moved out to support a much larger radiator.
I would agree, an original paint car should be preserved. My goal is for the car to look 1965, act current technology, and be fun to drive.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2010 18:16:27 GMT -5
Sounds good to me, However, it all depends on the user and what his or her plans are with the car. Some people like the restoration process in general, and some like to just sit and look at it. In my case, I just like a Sunday drive once in awhile, or, a car show a couple times a year. Also, the art of restoring. It's good therapy for me. " I think"
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