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Post by john442 on Jun 18, 2018 12:04:15 GMT -5
Many of you know and have helped me when I had my car converted to 4 speed (close ratio M21). Now I'm considering changing the 3:08 gears to 3:55 or 3:73 and possible converting my existing rear to posi at the same time. That is possible isn't it? I'm thinking my car seems to have plenty of torque but not speed when going through the gears. The torque from the 455 seems greater than the 400 I had years ago but the speed is less. That 65 Cutlass Holiday was 4 speed (stock factory) with a 67 400 and I'm guessing it had 3:55 gears (14" "F" wide Ovals) because it was good for highway travel.
I see on ebay several different posi units (Eaton, Auburn..etc) and several different rear sizes (8.2, 8.5) . How do I know which is best and/or correct for my car? Last, is there a big difference in RPM's at 55 when using 3:73 v. 3:55? I have 14" tires I believe are 26.5" tall.
Thanks in advance for your help and suggestions. John
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Post by fromthegrave65 on Jun 18, 2018 12:46:26 GMT -5
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Post by joepadavano on Jun 19, 2018 17:06:50 GMT -5
"Calculator"? It's just a ratio. At 55 mph, engine revs with the 3.55 gears will be 3.55/3.73 of the revs with the 3.73 gears. That's 95%.
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Post by john442 on Jun 20, 2018 12:23:20 GMT -5
Thanks guys for all your help. Just looking at ebay I see two posi units, Eaton and Auburn. Which would you suggest and would you buy it and the gears from ebay? Do I have to know anything about the stock open rear/axles now in the car? Is there anything else besides the posi unit, gears and bearings kit needed to do the conversion? I will have a professional do the job since I've never done a change like this. Thanks again for all your help.
John
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Post by BR[] on Jun 20, 2018 18:57:57 GMT -5
If you are unfamiliar with rearend and gear changes, my suggestion is to have a rearend guy do it. Knowing what set-up fits what housing and shimming is critical and you don't want to buy the parts twice.
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Post by fromthegrave65 on Jun 20, 2018 19:16:14 GMT -5
When I was researching posi rear ends a while back I didn't find many people who had anything nice to say about the auburn.
I would take Bro's advice. If you're going to have someone do it for you at least see how much they'll source whatever parts you will need for you before you resort to eBay, etc.
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Post by island65cruiser on Jun 20, 2018 20:06:56 GMT -5
John, I had 3.55's in my first 65, with an M-21, it ran like a scalded dog but I launched hard, at drove at high RPM and shifted at six grand to make it move. 3.55's will give you a comfortable cruise, 3.73's and lower gears will create noise and fuel economy issues for a road car but are better for the "stoplight Grand Prix". Totally agree it is a job for a professional, and you need to do everything from drum to drum while it is apart. Brakes, axle seals and bearings, carrier bearings, everything. Any old parts like wheel bearings will most certainly fail under the stress from new, strong lower gears and posi, because you are going to thrash it when you have the new found power! I easily destroyed the GM posi units (Auburn) on the street. I am going to install a Detroit Locker this time around. You are looking at $400 to $500 in labor, so put in the best parts to avoid re-do labor cost. I would source all the parts from Summit or Jeg's, because they will make sure you get all the proper parts matches, and warranty is really easy if there is any problem. Jeg's will price match any part, find the cheapest price anywhere and call them. No freight or Sales Tax for us here in Florida when you buy from them either. One more thing, tire size is important. If your tires are less than 27", the stock diameter, you will slow the car down.
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Post by john442 on Jun 21, 2018 11:35:37 GMT -5
Guys,
Thanks for all the great advice. I will use it. One last question for Island65cruiser. Are you saying that if I use 26.5"tires instead of taller tires that replacing the 3.08 with 3.55 my car will actually have less speed going through the gears? Are we talking about 5 or 10 miles an hour in the quarter or more? Does that also mean the torque or G force will be greater because I am using smaller tires?
Sorry for all the questions but I would hate to replace the gears and be disappointed with the results. I'm thinking this cars 455 (stock 70 motor) has more HP and torque than the 400 I had. I'm thinking I should be able to get greater speed and even gain torque just by changing gears. Shouldn't this motor and gear change give me more speed and torque than the 400 motor. I'm thinking this because both cars were 4 speed and I'm fairly certain the gearing would be the same (and tires too).
I had a 69 Chevelle BB 454 4 speed M21 with 4.11 gears and though I liked the torque I hated driving above 40. The car sounded like was it running at very high RPM's.
Thanks for your help, John
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Post by jcf85post on Jun 21, 2018 11:47:22 GMT -5
with the close ratio trans i would go with 3.73s ,if you don't like it a taller tire would make up the difference.26.5 is a fairly short tire.my .02 jc
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Post by island65cruiser on Jun 21, 2018 14:08:53 GMT -5
John, when I build, I use formulas, cause I'm not all that smart, all available on the web, that will figure, RPM, rear end gear, and tire size all as factors to determine your RPM at a given cruising speed. No guesswork! For example, on my current project, my best combination was chosen for an eighty MPH cruising speed, and a 3.08 rear gear (already in the car) and a 27 inch tire. The equation solved for cruise RPM in fourth, which is 1:1 gearing. Based on that info, I had to use a 2.56 first gear, M-20 trans with 3:08's. My car will not be quick out of the hole, but comfortable on the road. With an M-21, with 2:20 first gear, I definitely would not have enough guts out of the hole. Changing tire size is the same as changing gearing. I fully agree with jcf85post, measure of the tire size you now have, and the RPM goal at a given speed, the formulas will tell you the right ratio. 4:11's will spin you over 4,000 rpm at highway speeds. For example, my pro-street car with 4:10's uses 29" tires with an O/D tranny to keep RPM at about 3,000 at 70 MPH. Check Summit or Jeg's, I think they have the formulas in tech support. Last suggestion: Like everything else, measure twice, cut (buy) once! Good luck.
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Post by john442 on Jun 21, 2018 19:28:18 GMT -5
Thanks to everyone who gave advise and needed info. All great which is what I needed to make the change. I did find an RPM calculator on line and it works as you said. Good tool. Thank you all again,
John
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