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Post by mongoose on Aug 11, 2012 10:37:33 GMT -5
There are two spades on the solenoid on the drivers side of the transmission that "activates" the higher stall. Each spade is wired to a separate spade on the throttle linkage switch, one energizing at idle, and the other at roughly 80% throttle. I can understand the need for the two spades on the throttle switch, but why are there two on the solenoid at the transmission. Does energizing one make the transmission pump/torque converter do something different than the other one? I would have thought that the function would have been the same... to increase stall speed 500-700 rpm, whether or not it was for when the engine was at idle or near/at WOT. The reason I ask is that when power is fed to the solenoid on the terminal fed by 12 volts at idle, nothing happens (no clicking), but when 12 volts is applied to the "WOT" terminal on the solenoid, I get the click you hope to hear. So that got me to thinking "why are there two separate terminals", and can I change up the wiring to use the terminal that's still working. Alternatively, can a new solenoid be found new, or do I have to ask you guys if one of you have a good working solenoid?  |
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Post by mongoose on Aug 11, 2012 12:01:02 GMT -5
ok... here's what I've figured out so far.
One terminal is to engage the stator solenoid, switching the stator blades in the converter from low to high pitch. The other terminal is to enable detent downshift, having nothing to do with the stall speed of the converter.
When I energize the detent downshift terminal on the transmission connector, I hear the "click" that has been referred to. And when I energize the terminal for the stator solenoid (which controls the stall speed) I hear no clicking.
So the question is, should I hear a "click" when I energize the "switch pitch terminal"?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 12:25:44 GMT -5
There are two spades on the solenoid on the drivers side of the transmission that "activates" the higher stall. Each spade is wired to a separate spade on the throttle linkage switch, one energizing at idle, and the other at roughly 80% throttle. I can understand the need for the two spades on the throttle switch, but why are there two on the solenoid at the transmission. Does energizing one make the transmission pump/torque converter do something different than the other one? I would have thought that the function would have been the same... to increase stall speed 500-700 rpm, whether or not it was for when the engine was at idle or near/at WOT. The reason I ask is that when power is fed to the solenoid on the terminal fed by 12 volts at idle, nothing happens (no clicking), but when 12 volts is applied to the "WOT" terminal on the solenoid, I get the click you hope to hear. So that got me to thinking "why are there two separate terminals", and can I change up the wiring to use the terminal that's still working. Alternatively, can a new solenoid be found new, or do I have to ask you guys if one of you have a good working solenoid? o.K. goose, haven`t taken ALL my meds yet today, but as soon as I do I`ll get back to you. Don`t be switching wires around ! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 12:29:57 GMT -5
ok... here's what I've figured out so far. One terminal is to engage the stator solenoid, switching the stator blades in the converter from low to high pitch. The other terminal is to enable detent downshift, having nothing to do with the stall speed of the converter. When I energize the detent downshift terminal on the transmission connector, I hear the "click" that has been referred to. And when I energize the terminal for the stator solenoid (which controls the stall speed) I hear no clicking. So the question is, should I hear a "click" when I energize the "switch pitch terminal"? Hell, you must have been reading previous posts. Good for you. Answer is; YES Both at idle AND W.O.T. What wire are you energizing for pitch |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 12:38:55 GMT -5
I just searched switch pitch, it`s all there, pictures and all. If you need more let me know. There are no NEW solenoids available. But before you hunt for one, I have several. First test that you actually need one. Power the top of the "T" at the transmission.
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Post by mongoose on Aug 12, 2012 7:38:53 GMT -5
I supplied power individually to both the upper and lower terminals of the transmission connector. If I remember right (I haven't been back out in the garage this morning) the spades are configured in an upside-down "T". The terminal I believe operates stator solenoid which affects stall speed is the upper spade (the leg of the "T"). I hear no clicking when power is applied to that terminal... which I assume means that there is a loose/disconnected wire, a short, or a bad solenoid.
It's kind of hard to tell by the old pictures, but it looks like the connector has two leads that run a short distance to the solenoid that's bolted to the bottom of the valve body on the driver's side (can't tell if it's toward the front or the rear). I'm hoping I won't have to dig deeper than that, or the issue will surpass my experience with transmissions.
So sounds like I'm in the market for a replacement "case connector" and/or stator solenoid.
Quick note... this is in my TH400 transmission (so not the Jetway). Are these components the same in either transmission, or will the replacements have to be specific to the TH400 (or whatever they called the 3-speed transmissions with the switch pitch back then)?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2012 11:14:54 GMT -5
I know little to nothing about the s/p 400`s. I know they only came in big cars, and only for 65 66 some say a few 67`s. Some 400`s do have two terminals at the transmission case but were not switch pitch. You`d have to pull the pan & see where the wires go, switch pitch = both wires to solenoids. Non switch pitch= 1 wire to solenoid, 1 wire to a simple pressure switch on the valve body. If your using a big car switch pitch you would have had to have replaced the tail housing and output shaft, or shortened your driveshaft a bunch. If the solenoids are the same I don`t know for sure, but chances are they would be.
Sorry I can`t help you more
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Post by mongoose on Aug 12, 2012 12:26:26 GMT -5
So we have no idea if the s/p solenoids are the same between a Jetaway and a TH400. Wonder if anyone could find a part number for each one somewhere so we could compare?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2012 19:28:54 GMT -5
After spending some time in search of info on the 3 speed switch pitch, this I can say with some certainty, I am 99% sure the solenoids are different between the 2 speed and 3 speed. Not only are they totally different design, there located differently. 2 speeds have there solenoids mounted close to each other on the valve body. 3 speeds have the detent solenoid mounted on the valve body, stator solenoid mounted BEHIND the front pump (bugger) hopefully you can drop the pan and find a connection problem, or the thru-case connector is bad.
I have a complete breakdown of the 3 speed s/p with rebuild specs. It`s a shop manual with numerous illustrations. Trouble is, it`s on cd and it`s locked so I`m unable to copy/paste anything from it. Unless someone knows how to unlock it I cant send you anything from it.
Hope this helps a little at least
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2012 20:16:48 GMT -5
This is a write and re-write from the shop manual
POOR PERFORMANCE OR ROUGH IDLE DUE TO STATOR NOT CHANGING ANGLES
A: Stator switch inoperative or mis-adjusted
B: Pump
1 stator valve train stuck
2 Lead wires not connected at outside/inside terminal, grounded out, pinched
3 Feed circuit to stator restricted, blocked. Check feed line in stator shaft
4 Converter outer check valve(reed valve) missing or broken
5 solenoid inoperative
C: Turbine shaft
Oil seal ring worn, damaged, missing.
Shaft ring lands damaged
D: Case
Stator orifice plug missing or blocked
Converter defective
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Post by mongoose on Aug 13, 2012 5:53:51 GMT -5
3 speeds have the detent solenoid mounted on the valve body, stator solenoid mounted BEHIND the front pump (bugger) Ugh... Thanks for your time researching this Postcar. I guess the best I can hope for is to find an electrical issue on the way to the solenoid, and not a problem with the solenoid itself. I can drop the pan, and try applying 12-volts to the wire leading to the solenoid, and see if I hear a click. If still no click, the problem is up in the guts of the transmission, and it will be time to outsource the repair to someone with a lot more transmission experience than me. At that point then the problem is raised of finding the appropriate replacement solenoid. I'll need to start talking with some of these companies that supply switch pitch kits to see what they might have. |
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