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Post by shane on Jun 17, 2012 20:48:56 GMT -5
What is your definition of American auto maker ? Does it have to have American name that out sources less then 25% of its work to other countries or is it a foreign name and uses American made parts and is built here in the states and only 25% of it is out sourced to a foreign countries?
Just curios one how someone defines an American made car/truck.
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Post by chadman on Jun 18, 2012 6:56:37 GMT -5
To me it has to be an American owned and named company with the majority of it's parts and products made in the U.S.A. I personally will not buy a vehicle made in the U.S. from an Asian company. Likewise I will not buy a vehicle from the big three that they build in another country (Ford Fusion, Chevy Avalanche, Cadillac SRX etc.). In my opinion that only sends them the message that we don't really care where you build it as long as you slap a Ford or Chevy emblem on it. For me it has to be built here by Ford or GM period.
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Post by bubbasz1 on Jun 18, 2012 8:25:23 GMT -5
The auto business is so intertwined anymore your probably going to get a slew of different answers on this one if the members actually wish to respond to the question. Personally I haven't thought of it because I haven't got a wallet deep enough to purchase a new vehicle. If I did it no doubt would be a big three car because most of the monies do stay in the USA. But having said that a ton of parts for Honda, Nissan, BMW, ect are also made here by your neighbor or buddy. So at what point do you shut out the foreign cars from your buying portfolio. There are some brands that are %100 off limits for me no matter what but there are many that if they produced a vehicle I liked that I would have to spend time on evaluating it. We currently make parts for Honda, Nissan, Ford, GM, Chrysler, and many more. Just after the recession Honda die's and parts helped us survive, it would be hard to turn my back to them. Reverse shoring of many parts is a lot more common today than 3 or 4 years ago, so what do you do if your paycheck is partially dependent on companies from across the big pond. Not a question that is particularly easy to answer anymore.
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Post by real57vetteguy on Jun 18, 2012 9:53:03 GMT -5
To me it has to be an American owned and named company with the majority of it's parts and products made in the U.S.A. I personally will not buy a vehicle made in the U.S. from an Asian company. Likewise I will not buy a vehicle from the big three that they build in another country (Ford Fusion, Chevy Avalanche, Cadillac SRX etc.). In my opinion that only sends them the message that we don't really care where you build it as long as you slap a Ford or Chevy emblem on it. For me it has to be built here by Ford or GM period. What he said exactly!
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Post by RAM Z on Jun 18, 2012 10:08:07 GMT -5
Real easy for me, since I work for Ford. Two cars that my wife and I have bought new, a 04 Focus wagon and a 10 Escape. Both built here in the states, with US built transmissions. Hard to find any vehicle that is 90+% North American anymore. Fusion is nice but it is Mexican.
I will say this, when the Tsunami hit Japan, the Japanese Big 3 were crippled. The Domestic Big 2.5 didnt miss a beat. All the companies are global entities, but only GM and Ford are truely American companies. Chryslers heart is here too, has their HQs here in Detroit, but they have a Foreign parent.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2012 16:08:54 GMT -5
Tough question to answer. GM is in bed with Toyota and Isuzu and who knows what else. Ford is in bed with Mazda and Kia and who knows what else. They all build cars in Canada. Especially, Ford, Chrysler and Honda. Chances are, if you own a Chrysler, it's got a Mitsubishi engine of some kind. Almost all use foreign pieces/parts. Yeah the profit from the foreign car goes back across the pond no doubt. But on the other hand, if you lived in Merrysville Ohio, where would you work? Or Kentucky? Something else I've noticed is one never hears much belly achin' from those places. They are either really good at coverin' it up or there is not many problems labor wise. No, I don't own a new car of any kind the last new car I bought was 1978. All my cars come with some assembly required. Daily drivers right now happen to be Dodges.
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streetrod
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Life to short to go slow.
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Post by streetrod on Jun 18, 2012 18:10:30 GMT -5
I'm a big Pontiac guy, I was looking to buy a G8 6 speed GXP. When GM killed off Pontiac I said screw GM and I went an bought a 2010 Challenger. When I needed a part for the interior, the part was made in China .
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Post by 64b09 on Jun 18, 2012 19:38:22 GMT -5
Too me Ford, government motors, and I guess chrysler, although they seem to be getting passed around europe like cheap ho. I won't ever buy a Toyota, they wrecked a summer for me one year and for the most part couldn't stand the people of their's I had to work with. Gm makes nothing i want and are dead to me since 04. I think their trucks are butt as ugly, don't like the camaro or any other of their cars.
Other than Oldsmobiles I'm a Ford guy. I would buy a Chrysler before I bought a gm but I'm not really liking many of them either.
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Post by wailinwayne on Jun 18, 2012 20:13:02 GMT -5
My first love , in the automotive world, was the '65 Olds Cutlass/442. However, in 1970, I married into the Ford Family of Fine Cars having married a Ford dealer's daughter. Ever since I've had to carefully walk the line to keep myself and everyone else ( including my 3 Mustang crazy daughters ) happy. I must say that for the past 42 years a long line of Ford trucks & cars has been my main mode of transportation and they've never let me down! I also want to remind everyone that Ford was the only company a short while back that didn't have to accept a government bail out to stay alive!!!! Many cudos to Henry
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Post by shane on Jun 19, 2012 6:28:32 GMT -5
Looks like most of everyone else thoughts are the same as mine. Thanks for sharing your thoughts everyone.
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Post by real57vetteguy on Jun 19, 2012 8:06:12 GMT -5
I am very pro domestic, pro local etc. I wouldnt entertain ever buying anything but American, with the exception of maybe a German car I could never afford. My desire to only purchase a Ford product is strictly based upon past experiance, I was born and raised in a GM family, and the majority of my friends were GM crazy. This might get a little long winded but below is why I want to stick with Ford, My fiance just graduated from school to become a respiratory therapist so I do forsee a late model purchase coming and we have been seriously looking at the Buick line. 1) first car, 85 Z-28, 29k miles, before 30k miles, cam wore out, GM would not stand behind it, Tranny went at 33k miles, again GM would not stand behind it. 2) second car Dodge Turbo Conquest, JUNK JUNK JUNK too much to list, it was a lemon 3) between 17-24 I bought sold traded etc several highway patrol mustangs, all with 100-200k miles, used, abused, added Nitrous, etc, never had a single problem with any of them except for me breaking transmissions due to abuse 4) Jeep grand cherokee, bought with 41k, by 105k I had replaced rack/pinion, PS pump, water pump, front diff, rear diff, sold to a neighbor and motor blew at 111k 5) ford crown vic, 85k, drove it till 200k and sold it for more than I bought it for 6) Volvo S60 51k, drove it until 150k, great car, had an oil leak we could never get fixed, but plug a quart in every month and be done with it 7) Toyota Avalon, (it was my first and only toyota) 40k drove it til 79k, had to replace steering rack, air cond compressor, several sensors, wheel bearings, valve cover gaskets, exhaust rusted apart, frame was rusting, etc etc, 8) Cadillac CTS-V 31k, sold at 65k, loved the looks, loved the performance, 6 rear ends not by abuse, they all had bearing issues, brake caliper shattered completly in two car was under warrenty, Cadillac refused to fix it stating that the local GM dealer that put the brakes on was not an authorized Cadillac dealer, finally got regional Cadillac rep involved, after a month of a loaner car they decided to fix it, guages would work and not work from time to time, noisey car. 9) Ford F-250 110k til present, this was a former work truck from a supply house, it has been beat to death and still going, presently has 251k, I change the oil every 15k miles whether it needs it or not, you cant kill this thing! 10) Ford expedition, bought at 85k sold at 278k, I had to replace the air cond compressor, and the window come off track once, also plugs 1 time, other than that, another bullet proof vehicle, I abused it, same as my ford truck, oil gets changed between 15-20k, I sold it because I got a new Company truck and dont need the Olds, The f-250, the expedition, and the new truck, I wished I would have kept it, Ran into the guy I sold it to, it is clocking 335k and still no issues 11) 2002 Chevy Silverado, Bought at 29k, currently 61k so far I have had to replace window motor, a control module for the air conditioning, its a 5.3, and I was getting 12 mpg, so dealership replaced all the fluids with synthetic, and plugs, to which I now get 18 mpg, but have to keep plugs changed quite often to keep the mileage up, replaced key lock device in the shifter, its a good truck just upset with all the minor stuff going bad at such low miles.
So based on the above I have had much better experiances with Ford, I can say my worst Ford has been more relaible than my best of any other brand.
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Post by oldsproject on Jun 19, 2012 16:17:51 GMT -5
I used to be died in the wool never buy anything but a ford truck or a chevy car. But that was then and this is now. There is no such thing as built in the US anymore. Because a companys offices are hear doesnt exactly make them loyal to the US economy. Big business is big business and they need to compete regardless. Its all in the name of shareholder value. That said, how closely has anyone every really analized automanufacturers and where thier money goes and doesnt? Toyota and Hondas sourcing strategy might suprise many especially in local economies where they build their plants. They have an integrated sourcing approach that brings their supply base close to their manufacturing plants which creates lots of US jobs. They have also brought innovation to factories setting them up to build multiple vehicle types from the same plant versus highly specialized smaller plants. They have set a high bar but I do remember very clearly when they were junk too. That said, the so called American manufactures (who by the way are not the big three anymore nor have been for awhile) have come a very long way towards raising their game. Ford is a company all of us should be proud of. What they did in the downturn with little government support was absolutely awesome. GM on the otherhand, was a bit of a mess and quite frankly shameful. They did learn but not until they got hit a few times with the perverbial 2x4. All of what I said really means nothing though as we all have our own memories, beliefs and thoughts. It makes us unique as individuals. That said I have the melting pot of vehicles as I buy what makes sense for me. I bought my oldest daughter a pontiac grand prix, my middle daughter a ford mustang and my son a dodge caliber. Myself i currently own two oldsmobiles a toyota 4runner a dodge dually and an infinity. I cant begin to list the many chevys, fords, pontiacs and dodge vehicles ive had but its everything from a 72 monte carlo to my ole lincoln continental boat. Loved all of them even the occasional lemon and I'll bet most of my money regardless of vehicle helped here in the US somewhere with a little going overseas too. Thats life in a flat world though.
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Post by RIP OLDS on Jun 20, 2012 11:52:09 GMT -5
Before we all become proud papa's of Ford because they didn't need a bailout, look at the facts.
Ford was in a diehard situation the year prior to the financial crisis. It was at this time Bill Ford stepped down and Allan Mullaly from Boeing was hired to save the company. Ford mortgaged all its assests to raise 23 billion dollars to save the company from going under.
Had the financial crisis occured a year earlier Ford would have needed the bailout just as much as anyone because there would have been no financial institution on the planet with the money to lend Ford.
So we can stop waiving the Ford American Flag and chalk it up to pure luck. Timing is everything.
That being said, buy whatever car appeals to you as a Car guy. While I am a GM guy at heart, I have owned two Audi A4's, and two Volkswagens (1999 Passat and my current 2008 GTI). GM just did not make any kind of car that I willing to spend money on when I purchased these cars. If you like cars that handle and are really fun to drive, it's hard to beat the german cars. The two Audi's were trouble free (to 50K when I sold them), the 1999 Passat was trouble free (50K), the GTI needed a new engine (burned too much oil, replaced for free). Before the germa cars I purchased my first new car, a 1989 Pontiac TransAm. According to Consumer Reports it was not supposed to be a reliable car, but I went 175K miles (10 years) and never needed anything but oil changes. Not even brakes or a clutch!
In the last couple of years I have been pretty impressed with some GM cars, so perhaps my next car will be a GM. Some of the interiors are now the best in the business.
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Post by RAM Z on Jun 20, 2012 12:15:58 GMT -5
Before we all become proud papa's of Ford because they didn't need a bailout, look at the facts. Ford was in a diehard situation the year prior to the financial crisis. It was at this time Bill Ford stepped down and Allan Mullaly from Boeing was hired to save the company. Ford mortgaged all its assests to raise 23 billion dollars to save the company from going under. Had the financial crisis occured a year earlier Ford would have needed the bailout just as much as anyone because there would have been no financial institution on the planet with the money to lend Ford. So we can stop waiving the Ford American Flag and chalk it up to pure luck. Timing is everything. Woulda coulda shoulda. Whatever the case may be they didnt take the cash. They could have and it was offered to them. They couldve used it to buy back the blue oval and clear their debt. But they didnt. They worked hard, made great products, cut costs/brands, and are now are making money and are investment grade once again. Using your argument if the financial meltdown never happened GM would not have went bankrupt. In this case bad luck, right?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2012 13:33:56 GMT -5
GM does and always has had the misconception it can stick a bow tie on anything and suck the public into buying it. I always was and still am, a Pontiac guy (pre 77 anyway) I sat at a Pontiac gathering in the mid 90's and heard the GM executive tell myself and and three hundred or so others that GM didn't build very good cars in the eighty's,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, well DUH!?!?! But they kept right on doing it til they went belly up. Now they want the public to come runnin' back and bend over again. Well, they got to go a lot farther to convince me to buy another GM vehicle.
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Post by 64b09 on Jun 20, 2012 17:20:25 GMT -5
Before we all become proud papa's of Ford because they didn't need a bailout, look at the facts. Ford was in a diehard situation the year prior to the financial crisis. It was at this time Bill Ford stepped down and Allan Mullaly from Boeing was hired to save the company. Ford mortgaged all its assests to raise 23 billion dollars to save the company from going under. They still didn't get gov't money then, or when GM and Chrysler (for the second time) did, they figured out a way to fix it without the taxpayers money. I like Ford products more, always liked there trucks better, them not taking the bailout money is just the icing on teh cake. I drive an 01 F150 Screw 4x4 with 178,000 on it now, my last ford truck was a ranger with 225,000 when I traded it in on my 96 Olds Eighty Eight, which at 180,00 was traded in on the Screw. My wife is driving a Jetta now, and its a nice car, but she wants another 96-99 Eighty Eight for the roominess and good mileage ( we've gotten 30 mpg highway with our old one). I don't see myself ever buying a new GM but I may end up buying an old one.
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Xtremejr
Member
Hold my beer and watch this shit.
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Post by Xtremejr on Jun 20, 2012 18:48:57 GMT -5
It dosent matter how you look at it or even word it, Ford Vs. Chevy has and always will be a huge pissing match. However its more fun to talk shit with your buddies about who's Ford Or Chevy is better than discussing who is republican or democrat, which always turns into an argument. Me personally Im kinda on the fence, Ive owned Ford Trucks and all kinds of Chevy Trucks. Currently Own a 2009 Silverado 4x4 crew cab, That SOB has all the bells and whistles, but for over 40 grand it had better. The Wife drives a Fords Relative, 2006 Mazda 6, and boy is that thing fun, It feels like you are in a huge Go-Kart. We have always Bought new cars every Ten years, next up is the wife and she wants some kind of Lexus SUV, So we will own a Toyota I guess. That will be my first Toyota. All that said I look at it as good MPG and Point A-B, Although Remote Start can't hurt, especially in Wisconsins winters.
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Post by RIP OLDS on Jun 20, 2012 19:42:49 GMT -5
"They still didn't get gov't money then, or when GM and Chrysler (for the second time) did, they figured out a way to fix it without the taxpayers money."
From Factcheck.org:
Although Ford did not need money from the $80 billion bailout program, Ford did receive $5.9 billion in government loans in 2009 to retool its manufacturing plants to produce more fuel-efficient cars, and the company lobbied for and benefited from the cash-for-clunkers program — contrary to the ad’s testimonial that Ford is “standing on their own. The fact is, with the aid of that taxpayer loan and a well-timed bank loan of $23 billion, Ford managed to tiptoe past the graveyard and avoid bankruptcy."
”Ford Chief Executive Officer Alan R. Mulally also asked Congress for a “credit line” of up to $9 billion in case the economy worsened.
All I am saying is that Ford would have taken the money in a flash if they hadn't secured a 23 bilion dollar loan just prior to the housing crisis. They weren't heroes, just lucky. And had the gov't. not bailed out GM and Chrysler, they would have ended up bailing out Ford anyway due to the economy really worsening.
As for GM crappy cars, I watched an interview with one of the recent heads of Engineering (design). I can't recall his name, but he is responsible for the turnaround in quality. When he was hired, the first question he asked the Engineering department was "How come we can't make our door gaps as small as BMW and Toyota" The answer he received was "No-one ever asked us to".
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Xtremejr
Member
Hold my beer and watch this shit.
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Post by Xtremejr on Jun 20, 2012 20:09:25 GMT -5
So does the " no one ever asked us to" mean we only do what were told and don't give any ideas to a higher power or what. They build cars for the american people correct? I wouldn't last one day working at a company that dosent value employee opinion or customer opinion. It wasn't always about making a buck, Just wait 20 more years.......
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2012 20:19:52 GMT -5
Good car, crappy car? I judge that by how much did it cost me to drive it for the time I had it. Gm has had head and intake gasket trouble since the early 90's and they still kept puttin' em' out there for the public to buy. Along with there junk transmissions, there leaking plastic manifolds. Not mention, every ac/compressor on every 3400 engine. Just a stupid o-ring and you can't buy one. Aluminum control arms and knuckles with steel bolts, DUH? everybody knows steel and aluminum grow together. They all have issues, but, repeated issues are a joke. GM got just what it deserved and maybe not enough.
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