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Post by oldsproject on Dec 21, 2011 16:40:26 GMT -5
Anyone have any insight on what to use on the rear? Ive seen alot of print that poly is better but when you read the fine print, better for track not street. And if not matched right will cause binding, especially on the uppers. Thoughts appreciated.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2011 17:30:57 GMT -5
For street, ride-ability, comfort = rubber (all the way around)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2011 21:08:42 GMT -5
Ive seen alot of print that poly is better but when you read the fine print, better for track not street. And if not matched right will cause binding, especially on the uppers. Thoughts appreciated. All that and they squeeeeeeek like crazy!!!!!!!!! Drives you nuts! I have done poly and rubber in different cars in the past. I will only do rubber in a street car from now on. JMO.
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Post by oldsproject on Dec 22, 2011 3:57:48 GMT -5
Thanks gentlemen!
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Post by mongoose on Dec 22, 2011 6:16:29 GMT -5
I've heard all these symptoms... potential for binding at the extremes of travel impacting handling in autocross and road course applications. I also "believe" that the squeaking of poly bushing was from materials used in older designs, and that the newer style bushings are impregnated with something to alleviate the squeaks. But that could just be marketing BS. I'll find out since I installed poly bushings when I re-installed the rear end.
Now here's an interesting thought... if poly bushings end up being too annoying from a "ride experience" perspective, if someone were to install a set of any of the aftermarket adjustable upper and lower control arms, should they knock out the poly bushing and install a rubber bushing in its place? Hmmmm...
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Post by bubbasz1 on Dec 22, 2011 8:15:41 GMT -5
I agree with Mongoose, all my new arms, lower, upper front and back all have grease fittings, I'm afraid it will be a while before I can report back whether they work or not. Mongoose, if you have adjustable control arms, ride is not important, the little stiffer ride isn't going to sour your appreciation for the performance of the car, I mean we all know that. Besides you surely don't want to go really fast in something that rides all mushy. Bet those $200,000 Lambo's aren't mushy.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2011 9:28:04 GMT -5
Here`s the way I look at it. Everyone has there preference on most everything. Poly vs. rubber is a control, ride choice. Poly will control better than rubber, but not noticeable enough to warrant the increased price, or loss of ride quality for street use. If your road racing and feel you need the increased control go poly. G.M. has used rubber in there street performance cars for years, the cars were engineered for rubber, perform quite well for decades of use. Non graphite poly will squeak. A precaution to take is to install any bushing correctly. Poly and rubber have travel issues, poly is less tolerant to travel, after your new bushings are installed, lets say in the rear control arms, before tightening the mounting hardware to sandwich the bushings in the brackets, make sure your vehicle is at the correct ride height, or you will load the bushing and create a stressed/loaded bushing. Now someones gonna say they read where you should tighten the bushings 2 3 or 4 degrees before or after ride height, this is true if your really trying to zero in your body lift or plant at launch. But I believe the original question was referring to STREET driving, the correct reply is RUBBER, less you want to feel every tar mark, concrete crack, pebble on the road. I think by now most members here, know how I feel about these "Hi-Per" aftermarket parts being installed on a car that will 99% of the time be driven from car show to car show, and a cruise down the boulevard once and awhile. They are, for the most part, parking lot bragging conversation. (like my dicks bigger than yours) But unlike a big dick, these super-parts will seldom be used to there potential in street application.
To reply to the original question !! Use rubber, install correctly, enjoy a nicely controlled, quiet ride.
MY 2 CENTS
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Post by mongoose on Dec 22, 2011 10:58:51 GMT -5
Man... I hate when someone has a bigger dick than me... that's why I had to install poly graphite bushings!!! ;D
The poly bushings are probably overkill in a street application, especially if you're just going to cruise around on a Sunday morning with a cup of java in your hand. But with a 540hp 455 in my "drag convertible" street car (credit goes to postcar for that awesome description) I figured I needed a bit more rear end control to keep the drag radials from bouncing in the wheel wells.
And Bubba's right too (hey... I think we're ALL right... isn't that cool?) that the balance between performance and ride quality is a personal preference thing. When I had my Vettes, I lowered them, added heavier duty sway bars and shocks, to improve looks and handling for my weekend autocross events, and still drove it everyday to the office with the 6-point harness hanging behind the seat.
It really comes down to personal preference based on opinions you get from other people oldsproject. It depends on what your intent and vision is for you car, and what you like and don't like. If you think you might like the poly bushings, install them. If later you decide it's not what you want out of your car, change them out to rubber... you'll only be out $100 or so plus a weekend changing them out. It'd give you something to do next winter if you don't like them. But if you don't try them, you'll never know if it's what you're looking for.
And it never hurts to have a bigger dick. Especially if you get to use it in a street application!!! ;D
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Post by bubbasz1 on Dec 22, 2011 11:13:36 GMT -5
Man... I hate when someone has a bigger dick than me... that's why I had to install poly graphite bushings!!! ;D The poly bushings are probably overkill in a street application, especially if you're just going to cruise around on a Sunday morning with a cup of java in your hand. But with a 540hp 455 in my "drag convertible" street car (credit goes to postcar for that awesome description) I figured I needed a bit more rear end control to keep the drag radials from bouncing in the wheel wells. And Bubba's right too (hey... I think we're ALL right... isn't that cool?) that the balance between performance and ride quality is a personal preference thing. When I had my Vettes, I lowered them, added heavier duty sway bars and shocks, to improve looks and handling for my weekend autocross events, and still drove it everyday to the office with the 6-point harness hanging behind the seat. It really comes down to personal preference based on opinions you get from other people oldsproject. It depends on what your intent and vision is for you car, and what you like and don't like. If you think you might like the poly bushings, install them. If later you decide it's not what you want out of your car, change them out to rubber... you'll only be out $100 or so plus a weekend changing them out. It'd give you something to do next winter if you don't like them. But if you don't try them, you'll never know if it's what you're looking for. And it never hurts to have a bigger dick. Especially if you get to use it in a street application!!! ;D Frankly in the case of my vert(aka Rustly mother fucker) as Postcar knows (as the front of my vert frame came from his post car) the front and rear control arms were sad looking to say the least. After painting the fronts looked like shit and the rears were rusted beyond use. So what do you do, replace with better old stock items, or put better than old technology on. Well, I went with the latter, hence I gain a little better ride and control up front, more header clearance from the mounting and shape of the upper control arms, and some super strong rear control arms. Did I need them, probably not, but if your going to replace your shit, and you don't care if its anal original, why not go with better than original. I'm basically a CMF but I waited and searched and founds deals on everything so>>it is what it is.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2011 17:30:39 GMT -5
oops !! I did it again. Looks like I got the "parade car" guys pressure up
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Post by bubbasz1 on Dec 22, 2011 18:44:51 GMT -5
oops !! I did it again. Looks like I got the "parade car" guys pressure up Your certainly not talking bout me, must be your Mongoose, I don't have no Pud pressure problems and I can't go in parades, my car would overheat.
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Post by oldsproject on Dec 22, 2011 19:04:13 GMT -5
All good points and talking specifically about the rear and bind issues. Not so much the front but good info. What really brought it up was in the Global West info they warn against poly for street applications combined with their spherical bearing. While I know that's slightly different it created enough question for me to ask. For what it's worth I took my lowers, welded in the reinforcement plate similar to the 442 lowers and put rubber in, will do the same on the uppers as well. May reinforce them just for good measure though unless anyone thinks they were designed to flex? I doubt it personally. Thanks again. PS, don't know if you guys saw it on the news but it played out here. I was on the UA flight that lost hydraulics and force landed in Spokane Washington last night. Not fun landing with no steering and pilot who says he thinks we should be able to land safely! Anyway, everyone is safe after 18 hours of delay and trouble. Home for the holidays!
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Post by bubbasz1 on Dec 22, 2011 21:44:30 GMT -5
All good points and talking specifically about the rear and bind issues. Not so much the front but good info. What really brought it up was in the Global West info they warn against poly for street applications combined with their spherical bearing. While I know that's slightly different it created enough question for me to ask. For what it's worth I took my lowers, welded in the reinforcement plate similar to the 442 lowers and put rubber in, will do the same on the uppers as well. May reinforce them just for good measure though unless anyone thinks they were designed to flex? I doubt it personally. Thanks again. PS, don't know if you guys saw it on the news but it played out here. I was on the UA flight that lost hydraulics and force landed in Spokane Washington last night. Not fun landing with no steering and pilot who says he thinks we should be able to land safely! Anyway, everyone is safe after 18 hours of delay and trouble. Home for the holidays! You want to make sure the reinforcement goes all the way to the end, I have seen many of the stock reinforced ones that actually cracked where the reinforcement ended. If I remember some years reinforcement are longer than others.
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Post by oldsproject on Dec 22, 2011 22:13:55 GMT -5
Yes, I should take a picture of the ones on my 442. The ones pictured above were standard Cutlass and I welded in the bottom plate. It extnds end to end. The ones in my December 64 built 65 are short. Something like 2/3rds or so. Will shoot a comparison but you are right on.
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