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Post by otis1965 on Dec 31, 2011 15:59:41 GMT -5
i would like for you to explain the best way to vent your engine and what problems you can encounter thank you
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2011 16:52:27 GMT -5
Bubba is right. Stan has a perfect example of a basic, well designed closed system. I didn`t intend on hijacking this thread, so if someone would move the content pertaining to venting, I`ll try helping.
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Post by RAM Z on Dec 31, 2011 22:33:16 GMT -5
Stans system is the exact system Olds used for their California cars. PCV in drivers side connected to the carb, breather in the passenger side, closed oil tube.
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Post by mongoose on Jan 1, 2012 8:05:39 GMT -5
have to decide what kind of fuel line I need to order Make sure you plan for your fuel system needs for the motor you plan to install later. Bigger HP numbers may need a 1/2" fuel line. And if you think you'll want a system with a return line, make sure it's beg enough to support the type of regulator you plan to use. As with so many things, this is another item where doing your research in advance will minimize the headaches (and "do-overs").
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Post by keener on Jan 1, 2012 11:39:42 GMT -5
exact system Olds used for their California cars. In CA the breather would need to be connected to the air cleaner for drawing fresh air, as well as allowing blow-by gases to be sent back into the engine rather than into the atmosphere. Open: PCV goes to carb from valve cover, breather style oil fill cap or breather in the opposite valve cover with a NON-breather oil fill cap. Closed: PCV to carb from valve cover, NON-breather type oil fill cap and opposite side valve cover breather that connects to the air cleaner. Jasen, post the photo you have of the closed and open system. It is a schematic with direction of airflow, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2012 12:56:21 GMT -5
Stans system is the exact system Olds used for their California cars. PCV in drivers side connected to the carb, breather in the passenger side, closed oil tube. No, not exact system. Cal. used a non sealed top hat, stans is the new improved screw on style with gasket, least it looks like to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2012 13:03:30 GMT -5
exact system Olds used for their California cars. In CA the breather would need to be connected to the air cleaner for drawing fresh air, as well as allowing blow-by gases to be sent back into the engine rather than into the atmosphere. Open: PCV goes to carb from valve cover, breather style oil fill cap or breather in the opposite valve cover with a NON-breather oil fill cap. Closed: PCV to carb from valve cover, NON-breather type oil fill cap and opposite side valve cover breather that connects to the air cleaner. Jasen, post the photo you have of the closed and open system. It is a schematic with direction of airflow, etc. Looks like a terminology struggle about to take place. By definition a Positive Crankcase Ventilation system is CLOSED to atmospheric discharge. An open crankcase breather is OPEN to atmospheric discharge. Like I always said, look hard enough and you`ll find diagrams, articles etc. to back up whatever you want to believe. Even if you don`t understand the basic principal.
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Post by RAM Z on Jan 1, 2012 13:22:40 GMT -5
Stans system is the exact system Olds used for their California cars. PCV in drivers side connected to the carb, breather in the passenger side, closed oil tube. No, not exact system. Cal. used a non sealed top hat, stans is the new improved screw on style with gasket, least it looks like to me. Okay so not exact ::)but they are intended to do the same, close off the oil tube to the outside air.
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Post by keener on Jan 1, 2012 13:42:07 GMT -5
By definition a Positive Crankcase Ventilation system is CLOSED to atmospheric discharge. An open crankcase breather is OPEN to atmospheric discharge. Yes the PCV is closed, but the term closed in this discussion is referring to the escape of blow-by from the source of fresh crank case air. The California set-up is closed in this sense.....the air entering the crank case comes from the air cleaner..if blow-by occurs it does not escape into the atmosphere, it goes into the carb. Maybe we are saying the same thing, I need antoher cup of coffee, it was a late night.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2012 13:51:11 GMT -5
No, not exact system. Cal. used a non sealed top hat, stans is the new improved screw on style with gasket, least it looks like to me. Okay so not exact ::)but they are intended to do the same, close off the oil tube to the outside air. Ya, I know what your sayin. But the best laid plans of mice and men, or in this case, oldsmobile sucked !! The top hat leaks like a screen door, does nothing but inhibit the function of a closed system. Try running a crankcase vacuum function test on a block with a top hat style cap. O reading every time !
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2012 14:05:06 GMT -5
By definition a Positive Crankcase Ventilation system is CLOSED to atmospheric discharge. An open crankcase breather is OPEN to atmospheric discharge. Yes the PCV is closed, but the term closed in this discussion is referring to the escape of blow-by from the source of fresh crank case air. The California set-up is closed in this sense.....the air entering the crank case comes from the air cleaner..if blow-by occurs it does not escape into the atmosphere, it goes into the carb. Maybe we are saying the same thing, I need antoher cup of coffee, it was a late night. No, were not saying the same thing, not even close. I`m talking about two entirely different systems being incorporated on the same block as shown in the pics of therobskis engine . And as far as what cal. requires, A properly installed and calibrated pcv system will pull the crankcase gasses thru the pcv valve to the port just below the throttle plates and recirculate the gasses.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2012 14:09:48 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2012 15:19:54 GMT -5
Guys here is what I have, I just took these pictures of the 67. It works perfect. Now that said, if you are running roller rockers with std. valve covers you would have to remove the factory baffles inside the valve covers, that's creates a problem. You can either fab up some sort of baffle in it's place or what I did on the drivers side where the PCV valve is located I found some grommets that where " baffled". They have a slit in them that allows crankcase ventilation without the PCV valve sucking up oil. The pass side is just a breather allowing extra relief in crankcase pressure. Kind of like the early breathers on the oil fill pipe. I`d like to know how you determined it works perfectly. In the set up your using the "pass side is just a breather allowing extra relief in crankcase pressure", is in fact being utilized as a filter, filtering the air being drawn thru the crankcase via the vacuum at the pcv valve. If at any time there is "extra crankcase pressure" being expelled thru the pass side, your system is inadequate, PERIOD ! It all comes down to understanding the principal of a POSITIVE system, they call it positive because it vacuums the crankcase ALL the time, not some, or most of the time. I guess with this, in frustration, I have to give up. Seems like most think you hook up a vacuum line to any old pcv valve, as long as it fits the hole in the grommet it should work. Put a breather, check valve, or filter in the other valve cover and your good to go. Or like pictured, you can have a breather, a check valve, a pcv valve all in the same system !!! Oh, what the hell, go for it !
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Post by keener on Jan 1, 2012 16:05:45 GMT -5
No, were not saying the same thing, not even close. I`m talking about two entirely different systems being incorporated on the same block as shown in the pics of therobskis engine . And as far as what cal. requires, A properly installed and calibrated pcv system will pull the crankcase gasses thru the pcv valve to the port just below the throttle plates and recirculate the gasses. What do you mean two different systems on robski's car? he is using the open system (i.e. the system invented in the early 60's to reduce hydrocarbon emissions), this system had a pcv in the valve cover plugged into the intake or carb and a breather on the other valve cover. He has a screw on oil fill cap....all this was the standard open system back in the day. Sure it is not perfect, under heavy loads (open throttle) the crank case pressure may be too great for the PCV system to handle and back-up blow-by gases go out the breather...........HENCE the reason they developed the closed system with the breather connected to the air cleaner. If you think his system is incorrect, what do you propose be done with it? An open oil fill cap and a plug in the valve cover (i.e. no breather in the valve cover)?? This is the same thing he is already doing. I am way to confused or have a complete misunderstanding of how the hell the PCV system fxns.
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Post by keener on Jan 1, 2012 16:12:15 GMT -5
If the positive pressure system cannot handle the extra crank case pressure then the PCV vavle may be wrong for the application. This is why you see so many types and sizes at the store. THe PCV valvve is specific to the application, spring pressure, etc. Postcar, is right that if the blow-by escapes it is likely inadequate, but with that said, the more miles on the car the more wear on the rings and cylinder walls, which creates more blow-by. No matter how good the PCV system, gases will back up with engine age. The CLOSED system alleviates the blow-by from going to the atmosphere.
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Post by keener on Jan 1, 2012 16:15:13 GMT -5
gases will back up with engine age. I think I set myself up with that comment ;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2012 17:36:46 GMT -5
O.K. We`ll give it another try, this is the set up I first addressed. In this system there is a check valve, a breather on the oil fill, AND a pcv valve. ( a california/mchigan set up) Neither one will perform as designed. The following comment was made in reference to his 67 set up I`d like to know how you determined it works perfectly. In the set up your using the "pass side is just a breather allowing extra relief in crankcase pressure", is in fact being utilized as a filter, filtering the air being drawn thru the crankcase via the vacuum at the pcv valve. If at any time there is "extra crankcase pressure" being expelled thru the pass side, your system is inadequate, PERIOD ! It all comes down to understanding the principal of a POSITIVE system, they call it positive because it vacuums the crankcase ALL the time, not some, or most of the time.
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Post by oldsproject on Jan 1, 2012 18:07:10 GMT -5
Well, not ya got my interest and only because I want to do it right. The 1st system issue you address (california/michigan) you say wont perform as designed. What would you do to that specific setup to make it work properly ? I set my cutlass up similar to this setup. The only differance is that I didnt put a check valve, im on the drivers side and running off the front carb vacuum. So the setup is a pvc valve in the valve cover running to the front vacumm on the carb with an oil tube open style cap. Thanks Post.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2012 18:25:33 GMT -5
Wow this is fun, as far as the 67 455 no issues at all: racing, going on Power Tour, burger joint on Saturday Night etc. Now on the 400E I guess mixing the old with newer I can understand this may be actually overkill and under could perform. I spent a great deal of effort into fabbing the dual snorkel air cleaner so I may do is pull the PCV, put a breather in it's place or I do have a valve cover with no holes in it I could install. Then it would work as intended back in 64. The 400E is a temp anyway until I build the 425.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2012 18:41:11 GMT -5
Wow this is fun, as far as the 67 455 no issues at all: racing, going on Power Tour, burger joint on Saturday Night etc. Now on the 400E I guess mixing the old with newer I can understand this may be actually overkill and under could perform. I spent a great deal of effort into fabbing the dual snorkel air cleaner so I may do is pull the PCV, put a breather in it's place or I do have a valve cover with no holes in it I could install. Then it would work as intended back in 64. The 400E is a temp anyway until I build the 425. Racing, going on pour tours, or the burger joint on Saturday nights isn`t how you determine the efficiency of your system. And as far as not wanting to change something for the soul reason of the amount of time/ labor involved is your decision. Like I said in the beginning, I`m not looking to step on toes, or get in to a pissin match over this, but my posts do tend to get that reaction.
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